Fire extinguisher size and type for the wood shop

To start the conversation off.. this has been my take - if there's a better one I'm sure open to it.

ABC or maybe the fancy new ABCF with minimal 2A:10B:C for site extinguishers, plus a larger 4A:60B:C or a 10A:80B:C by the doors.
 
Not sure about all those fancy designations, but I have one at each door, one mounted to my welding cart and a couple hanging here and there.

Now if I can only remember where they are and can get to one when I need it.
 
Not an expert on fire extinguishers but our safety officer required us to invert and shake up the contents of the fire extinguishers that we carried in our cars every month. I do the same for the ones in my shop. Actually I probably do it more often than needed but I am paranoid about wanting the extinguishers to work. I had a small fire in my shop one time when some steel wool was ignited when I was sharpening a lawnmower blade on the grinder. I was able to pickup the bundle of steel wool and throw it into a bucket of water. If you don't already know, steel wool is a wonderful fire starter.

I bought two 8-pound 3-A:40-B:C extinguishers for my shop and replaced them when the expiration date was exceeded. They have a 10 year expiration date. These are single use fire extinguishers and cannot be recharged. I didn't throw them out when they expired and actually used them to put out the charcoal fires I use for hardening my knife blades which they did with ease. With the type I bought you get one shot and it empties.

The last time I bought these extinguishers they were around $45 each. That is a little steep but I would rather have them than not.

I know you can buy rechargeable extinguishers but I don't know how much that costs or where to get it done.
 
It covers a wide range of fires, including ones involving wood and flammable liquids like finishing products and car care stuff, so I say yeah, ABC is good. As for size, I'd say go for at least a 5-pounder.
 
Deciding what is burning, should be your first decision when about to fight a fire. When you can't decide, the ABC type of extinguishers will work best. ABC extinguishers are good, but they make a huge mess when used. It's not good to breathe the powder either. The numbers in the rating are a scale factor for the size of fire they will handle and this isn't much help for someone not technically savy with fire extinguisher ratings, except to compare the "4" rating for wood "A" fires to the "40" rating for "B" burning liquid fires and the "C" rating for electrical fires (so the larger the number, the better your chance of extinguishing the fire).

The HVAC in my shop is always on (heat pump - no high temperature surfaces = little chance of causing fire), but set low at about 40 deg F in the heating season when I'm not there. I keep a 2 gallon water extinguisher next to my 10 lb ABC extinguisher and a 20 lb BC CO2 extinguisher (for electrical and burning liquid fires) that is just inside the door of the shop too, and I will use that before I'll use the ABC dry powder extinguisher for burning liquid and electrical fires. (Again, to minimize the mess). Yes, always shake and flip end to end a dry chemical extinguisher as you carry it toward the fire. If you don't, you will likely not get use of the full charge of powder when you need it. The powder packs down when sitting and you need to get it loose and unpacked inside the extinguisher before use.

Always intend to apply the full charge of an extinguisher on the fire. Once the valve is open the the powder will prevent the valve from re-sealing, so the pressure will leak down quickly and you won't be able to get the remaining powder out anyway. Fight the fire until you have either fully exhausted the contents of the extinguisher or you are certain that the fire is completely out. Unless you have more extinguishers there and ready to use, you aren't going to get a second chance to fight the fire anyway. When using a fire extinguisher you want to point it at the base of the fire and with a sweeping action, sweep the fire back and away from whatever is burning (a motion much like sweeping a puddle of water on the floor - don't let it circle around you from the sides either). This is easy when the burning material is on the floor, but not so easy when in other places. You need to separate the fire from the burning material with the extinguishing agent. Shooting the fire 3 or more feet in the air will do nothing except waste the extinguishing agent. You need to cover and cool what is making the fire where it is happening, and then work back and away from there. Covering a fire with a fire rated blanket, or at least some kind of material that will seal off the air supply to the fire, is another good way to fight a small fire too. I have used a plastic tarp one time, and the fire was out before the tarp melted significantly (I used what I could get to quickly).

If I should ever have a fire in my shop, it will more likely be a wood and shavings fire because there is little else to burn in there, so the water will be easiest to remove during clean-up, but I have other ways to fight burning liquid and electrical fires. I also have a valve/hose bib on the outside of the shop next to the shop door with a 50' rubber hose and nozzle attached that will provide a good back-up for the inside extinguishers, but only in above freezing temperatures. Fortunately, we don't have many nights or days that are below freezing in our relatively short Winters here, so most of the time this is a good back-up. We have had no snow at all here yet this Winter.

My shop is a little smaller than a 1 car garage, so I feel that the three large extinguishers by the door and the hose outside should be enough to fight any fire that may occur while I'm there. My shop is 100' away from my home with a driveway between, so if the shop ever burns while I'm not there, my home should be safe. I decided to put my shop outside and away from my house when I moved here because I was always worried about fire in my basement shop under my last house.

Charley
 
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Thanks Charley.

It's likely with the pottery stuff we'll have some water on hand in the shop, if not plumbing it in permanently at some point. I do have the faucet/hydrant outside the shop with 100' of decent rubber hose. I tend to keep the hose drained out in the winter so that it can be used if need be.

It looks like the rechargeable extinguisher versions (by Kidde) are only about $10 more ($60) than the disposable ones. I'd have to see whom would service them or if they have to be sent in. Your point about the powder preventing a seal makes me feel like the disposable may be a better option anyway. I'm sure the service company would verify they seal before sending them back anyway.

I'll pickup some powder ABC ones to keep by the doors of the shop and welding equipment.
 
Thanks Charley.

It's likely with the pottery stuff we'll have some water on hand in the shop, if not plumbing it in permanently at some point. I do have the faucet/hydrant outside the shop with 100' of decent rubber hose. I tend to keep the hose drained out in the winter so that it can be used if need be.

It looks like the rechargeable extinguisher versions (by Kidde) are only about $10 more ($60) than the disposable ones. I'd have to see whom would service them or if they have to be sent in. Your point about the powder preventing a seal makes me feel like the disposable may be a better option anyway. I'm sure the service company would verify they seal before sending them back anyway.

I'll pickup some powder ABC ones to keep by the doors of the shop and welding equipment.
Their are a couple of places in Springfield that test and recharge them
 
When a ABC or BC dry powder fire extinguisher is serviced, the valve is rebuilt with new seals, remaining powder is removed, and the extinguisher tank is hydro tested and then dried completely. It's then filled with fresh powder and nitrogen, followed with a leak test. If it passes, it gets returned to the customer. Recharging cost is usually about 70% of the cost of a new extinguisher.

CO2 extinguishers will just be refilled and the valve rebuilt, then tested for leaks, if it has had a recent ( 5 year hydro test requirement) hydrostatic test, and it will get the hydro test if not recent. Very high pressures exist in these CO2 extinguishers, since the entire contents are a gas under pressure. The ones that I have are 20 pound size, and that's the weight of the gas. The extinguisher without the gas weighs about 15 pounds, so about 35 pounds when full. Too heavy for most women and some men to carry any distance. The white cloud that you see when you use a CO2 extinguisher is the frozen water vapor in the atmosphere as the escaping gas exits the extinguisher at a very low temperature and freezes the water in the atmosphere. You will find the date of the last hydrostatic test is stamped into the tank around the neck somewhere, and when it comes back from service it will have the new date of hydrostatic test added in the same general area. The newest date stamped into the metal is the active date.

There is another class of fire extinguisher, but you likely will never see one of them unless you are a fireman. These are for fighting burning metal fires, like magnesium, sodium, or sometimes aluminum. The contents are a blackish looking powder and as I understand it only made by one company. It goes by the name "Purple K". Refilling these extinguishers is very expensive. So much so that Volunteer Fire Companies usually tell their firemen not to even consider using the one or two that they own, unless their chief directly tells them to use it.
In the 1970's there were Volkswagon Square back station wagons running around that had magnesium fan shrouds around the motor cooling fan. Fighting fires in these, where the fan shrouds were burning, was quite difficult. Even these special fire extinguishers didn't always work, because the powder needs to form an air tight crust over the burning material, and it was difficult to completely seal around the shape of this fan shroud to stop it from burning. By the time it was realized that this fan shroud was burning, the car was a total loss anyway, so it became common to flip the car over and chop the burning material loose with axes, then dig a hole on the side of the road and bury the burning pieces in the hole, where the packed dirt would eventually suffocate and absorb the heat of the fire. No Purple K needed. I'm sure it works well if the burning metal is sitting there on a flat surface where the powder can completely cover the fire and seal out the oxygen. I never found a fire to be that cooperative.

Charley
 
I think there's generically some value in the water extinguishers over just a bucket in that you do get a nice cooling mist spray which does a better job of damping down the fire. And before you say "just use a hose with a nozzle" I'll ask how many times you've had to look for the dang hose when you've used it somewhere else (cause if you're like me it's a whole lot more than zero). Not saying you couldn't have something at the ready if it's plumbed in.. maybe one of those stretchy hoses with a spray nozzle would be handy for some of the clay work as well... so it's a touch situational depending on the shop layout. The A only water ones are less corrosive as well, the powder in the ABC extinguishers is a bear to clean up after and is pretty gritty/nasty. The water solution has the obvious electrical issues ofc, deal with that appropriately on that side I suppose.

In the 1970's there were Volkswagon Square back station wagons running around that had magnesium fan shrouds

Some of the VW (and Porsche but those are harder to find) engine blocks (starting in the early 1950's with a few models into the 80's) were a magnesium alloy as well (there were at least two alloys, one burns a bit better than the other). They're not real easy to get to started because they're a slightly less flammable alloy than the shrouds. But if you have a hot fire (like say a tire fire.. or if you put a leaf blower on a loose campfire with an engine block on top of it... 😁) they'll definitely get going and pretty much burn all up (excepting a few steel insert pieces). If you can find one of the fan shrouds you can also use that as a booster to get the engine block burning easier.

If you then hit the fire with water from say a convenient garden hose it's hot enough it'll actually crack it into hydrogen and oxygen and you'll get magnesium oxide snow over a 40-50' area (which you.. could.. collect for antacid I guess; it's basically the same as what's in tums).

If anyone should happen to do this you MUST have welding goggles or equivalent like the eclipse glasses in order to look at the fire directly. Otherwise it WILL burn your retina's and you'll wake up with a terrible case of snow blindness. This would also go for cases where you might happen to see an older VW on fire alongside the road, if there's a place where you can be well out of the way of emergency responders.. it's exciting to watch.. but not to closely...
 
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"Purple K"
Yes we used Purple K in the Navy as well as other types of fire fighting agent (AFFF foam) s but the fun time was when @ fire fighting school we had to put out Jet fuel and electrical fires using nothing but water. Water is the preferred medium in the Navy in that you have an unlimited supply on a ship. On ship board and especially on a submarine everyone is a fire fighter so the Navy sent us to schools numerous times to keep proficient at fighting fires.
 
If anyone should happen to do this you MUST have welding goggles or equivalent like the eclipse glasses in order to look at the fire directly. Otherwise it WILL burn your retina's and you'll wake up with a terrible case of snow blindness. This would also go for cases where you might happen to see an older VW on fire alongside the road, if there's a place where you can be well out of the way of emergency responders.. it's exciting to watch.. but not to closely...
I wonder how you know this....
 
"I wonder how you know this...."

We firefighters have tinted eye protection attached to our helmets, at least in the fire companies that I have belonged to. Not the greatest, but it helps. It's a wrap around shield that tapers at the ends and is connected to the helmet brim above the ears. They swing up out of the way easily, but can be pulled down in front of your face when protection is needed. There are other versions, but I like these the best. They are made from tinted polycarbonate, so quite tough and heat resistant. These fit well on the old NY Style helmets, but not so well on the OSHA idea of a fire helmet. I have always hated their design, to the point of buying my own NY Style when the company decided to go with them. It wasn't cheap....about $275 plus the cost of the face shield which was about $40 and this was about 45 years ago.

I was a volunteer firefighter since 1959 with several different companies due to my paying job moving. Before moving to NC I had worked my way up to Captain and was also an EMT II and studying to be a paramedic with the rescue squad in that fire company.

My career paying job was as an Automation Engineer (EE) mostly designing automated machine control systems for high speed, high precision, manufacturing lines. But shortly after becoming an EE, I worked on the design team that developed the special cameras that took mapping photos of the Moon from two orbiting rockets. We didn't know the reason for these until a few years later when I was working on the NASA Apollo program. The maps that were made from these photos were provided to the Astronauts in case they landed somewhere other than their planned landing location. The camera had to take photos of the entire Moon, including the back (dark) side. With 1950's camera and film technology and an orbiting camera, this was quite a challenge. About like driving down a road at 64 mph on a Moon less night and taking blur free photos of every house on the street in near total darkness, using film technology. The film used was self developing, much like the Polaroid film of that day. Encapsulated developer and fixer liquids were bundled with the film and spread over the film as it passed over the rollers. Then after several orbits, the images were slow scanned and transmitted to tracking stations, and then later it all ended up being pieced together and the maps were created from it.

The big problem that had to be overcome with this special camera was to find a way to lock the camera on a position while the shutter was open, and hold it pointed at that position until the shutter closed, then jump the camera angle ahead and lock it on the next position and hold it on that position again while the camera shutter again had to stay open when photographing the dark side of the Moon. We finally came up with a way of scanning a narrow area (spot) in a circular pattern and identifying side lit mountain peaks, etc. within the perimeter of this circle and memorizing the position of each within this circle. Once this data was collected, any movement in the following circular scans could be compared with the scan in memory and error signals produced by this comparison was fed to the camera positioning system to constantly move the camera just enough to correct for the orbiting rocket movement. These corrections took place at 120 times per second.
Then, when adequate light had been collected by the main camera, and the shutter closed, another control system caused the camera to jump ahead and begin the sequence of talking the next photo. With the Moon's very bright and very dark sides, controls needed to adjust the camera for the correct exposure between each shop too. We really pushed the limits of camera and film technology to do this, but it worked and worked very well.

Some 15 years later I used the basic design of this camera control system, of course with different optics, to electronically look at a magnified view of an integrated circuit chip and detect it's contact positions. Then switch the optics and look at the contact area of the integrated circuit substrate where the chip needed to be placed. Then remove the optics and place the chip, properly positioned, on the contacts of the integrated circuit substrate. Flux on the substrate site worked as temporary glue to hold the chip in the correct position until the substrate was conveyed through an oven to melt the solder and bond every contact of the chip to it's proper contact on the substrate. The average time required to do this was about 4 seconds and it could do this for each chip automatically and without human intervention, except for an occasional jam. Some of the substrates contained up to 112 chips, and each was placed this way. Each chip was about 0.100" to 0.120" square with up to about 150 electrical contacts, so very fast, high precision automatic assembly work.

Some day when you have your computer apart, look for the CPU module. It has a small metal cover in the center and is attached to the center of a reddish purple ceramic substrate. In a PC there is only 1 chip on the substrate and it's covered by this metal cover. In mainframe computers there are substrates that are up to about 4" square and they have up to about 112 integrated circuit chips on them, which are behind a liquid filled cover and this liquid is circulated to keep this high density circuitry assembly cool. In a main frame computer there can be many of these large modules and the circulated liquid to keep them cool.

Seven years before retirement #1 the company was no longer building new automation, so I was kind-of out of a job and transferring to another plant appeared to be in my future. Then I was approached and asked if I would be the Site Fire Marshal and Electrical Safety Engineer for the 3.2 million sq ft facility here. It was on 1,350 acres too. Since I love it here and was planning to retire here, I decided that this would keep me from needing to move to somewhere across the country, so I accepted the job. It was more than I had expected and I was working 12-14 hours a day much of the time, but 7 years later I retired. During that time I was basically the foreman over up to 6 fire technicians, doing mostly alarm and sprinkler testing. We didn't fight fires unless we had to. The local fire companies took care of the firefighting.

Charley
 
My wife always insisted we keep a box of Arm and Hamer Baking soda in the cars. One day while driving on the freeway in California we say a guy by the side of the road with the hood of his VW bug open and flames coming out, I pulled over grabbed the box of baking soda and tore the cover off ran up to where he was and emptied the box by throwing the contents on the fire, I had perfect aim that day and "just like that" the fire was out. The guy was real appreciative and wanted to give me some money but I told him no just buy a box of baking soda. That was back in the late 70. Now I keep a box of soda and a fire extinguisher in the truck.
 
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when I sold my business and then the real estate I had two massive old style brass/copper I believe fire extinguishers in mint condition. not sure, but they had to be from the 50s or earlier. someone told me dont leave them, since I had to have them, he said replace them with home depot units and save them, he said they were worth over 500 dollars each. didnt listen to him, I thought, who wants an old fire extinguisher? stupid, what did I know
 
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